SCOTT HARRIS: I’m very happy to welcome to our program, Alex Lawson. Alex Lawson is executive director of the group Social Security Works, and he’s longtime friend of this program and of people who are striving to protect Social Security from a constant war that’s being waged against it since it was founded by FDR all those years ago. Alex, thank you so much for making time to be on our program tonight.
ALEX LAWSON: Always my pleasure to be here.
SCOTT HARRIS: So a quick word. There are many longtime listeners who know well about the important work you do at Social Security Works, but give a brief rundown of the things you do address.
ALEX LAWSON: Just in line with the original intent of Social Security, we fight to build an ever-expanding system of economic security for everyone in this country. Mainly takes the focus of protecting and expanding Social Security, improving and expanding Medicare, Medicaid, lowering prescription drug prices, and otherwise just challenging the billionaire class so that they don’t crash the world economy.
SCOTT HARRIS: Well, that’s a good cause. And I wanted to get right to our topic this evening. You wrote an article for Common Dreams a week or two ago titled, “House Republicans Pitch a Plan to Cut Social Security to Billionaire Donor Harlan Crow.” So on Sept. 21, you wrote the GOP-led House Budget Committee held a field hearing at the Dallas, Texas property owned by billionaire Harlan Crow, who’s a big contributor to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, among others, which this hearing focused on creating a fast-track commission to cut Social Security benefits behind closed doors as you describe it. Tell us about this hearing where, as you say, seniors and disabled people who wanted to attend to hear plans about this vital program that so many millions depend on, they were kept out.
ALEX LAWSON: Yeah, the first thing to understand is that the billionaires know that it’s deeply unpopular to cut Social Security. So they do everything they can with their puppets in Congress to hide their intentions of doing so. But let me be super clear, that is exactly what they’re doing. That’s what they’re working on every day. And so one of the ways they tried to hide it, if you just Google “Alex Lawson and Jodey Arrington,” you’ll see my yearslong bromance with the Republican chairman of the House Budget Committee who’s proposed this commission to cut Social Security. He’s had me escorted out of his committee room. He had me arrested in his committee room one time, always for raising my voice in saying nobody wants to cut Social Security.
So their latest effort, they did a field hearing and there are rules around what you can do and how you can have field hearings. They broke all of them because their goal wasn’t to seek the input of the American people, which is what a field hearing is for, it was to hide their schemes from the American people. So they, with very little notice, moved the hearing out of D.C., not just to be away from me, but at some level to be away from me so that I couldn’t go there, so that the people couldn’t show up. But show up we did in Dallas, Texas where they moved it to. And even then they wouldn’t allow us in. And remember, this is a public hearing. They work for us. Congress works for us, but they were hiding this hearing in Dallas and then they weren’t letting us in. And then later I found out they were hiding it in this bunker compound of billionaire Harlan Crow who’s personally bought Clarence Thomas’ vote on the Supreme Court. That’s well reported.
And it was in this bunker that was a facsimile of the U.S. Capitol. It was designed to look like a seat of government, a billionaire-created fake seat of government, but with real members of Congress attending, scraping and bowing in front of Harlan Crow the billionaire and plotting and scheming to create a commission to cut Social Security benefits. I mean, there are so many things that were wrong about the setup, but the most in your face thing was Social Security is the second largest disability program in the United States. And we had people with disabilities with us. We asked for reasonable accommodation to attend this public hearing and they denied it. They denied it because this was designed not to seek the input of the American people, but to hide their intent of cutting Social Security benefits because they know how deeply unpopular that is.
And so my goal was to get there, expose them and their billionaire funder, the billionaire who runs the shot caller of the whole thing, Harlan Crow. And that’s what I did. I raised my voice there. They threw me out for doing so, but I did accomplish my goal, which was to expose what was going on here in this billionaire bunker in Dallas, Texas.
SCOTT HARRIS: Thank you for that, Alex. What do we need to know about the Republican party agenda on Social Security? Given the context that there are some actuary predictions that the Social Security Trust Fund will be exhausted by sometime in late 2032, unless new legislation to address the shortfall is adopted by Congress and signed by the president. Tell us what we know about their agenda.
ALEX LAWSON: The first thing to know is that since its inception, Social Security has been beloved by everyone except for the billionaires. It was created out of the depths of the Great Depression—the last time the billionaire class had tanked the world economy, and it was created not just to fix the problems right then, but also to create a system that prevented those problems from happening again. And it worked extremely well. Ninety-one years, this program hasn’t missed a single payment. It’s an engine against inequality, which is why the billionaires hate it. And then the billionaires, they buy politicians who have a singular goal, which is to cut Social Security benefits. What they’ve done is stolen the future of Social Security. Social Security works when everyone is playing by the rules. But since the 1980s, the billionaires have just gobbled up all the gains of the U.S. economy.
And in doing that, all of that wealth is above the Social Security cap. And many people don’t know this, but you only pay into Social Security on the first $184,500 of income. After that, you don’t pay in a nickel. So for the vast majority of the American people, you pay in all year long, you pay in on all of your income. But for a billionaire like Harlan Crow, he probably stops paying in on January 1st, a minute into the year. And the future of Social Security, the trust fund was supposed to last until 2065, but because the billionaires have taken all of the money and it’s above the cap, that date has pulled into 2032. So in the next presidential administration, if Congress does nothing, there will be a quarter, 25 percent benefit cut for everyone now and in the future forever.
On the other hand, we could just have billionaires pay the same rate on all of their income just like the rest of us do, just like a minimum wage worker does. And then not only is there not a benefit cut of a quarter of our benefits, but we could actually increase benefits if we have billionaires and the ultra wealthy, pay in on all of their income just like the rest of us do. So the Republicans’ goal is to convince people that we’re going to get nothing so that we will accept less than we’re owed. And they want to get people to allow them to cut our benefits usually right around the same amount as if Congress did nothing because they know that when given the honest facts and the choice that Americans face, that people decide every time, “No, we’re not going to cut hardworking people’s earned benefits that they’ve paid into—it’s our money, we’ve earned it. We’re not going to do that. We’re just going to have billionaires pay the same rate on all of their income.”
But these billionaires do not want to do that. They believe they’re above rules, above the laws, that all of that, the laws and anything like that are for the little people. And so the billionaires, they convince—they don’t convince, they just buy politicians to put this agenda forward and to try to drive it through in secretive bunkers in Dallas and then create a unaccountable closed door commission to cut Social Security benefits. That’s the Republican agenda and that’s what the American people need to understand. And when the American people do understand that, we defeat the Republicans and the billionaires every single time, which is why they’re gobbling up all the media as quickly as possible so that the American people don’t know the truth of what’s going on.
SCOTT HARRIS: Thank you for that, Alex. We’re speaking with Alex Lawson on Counterpoint this evening. Alex is executive director of the group Social Security Works, and we’re talking about a House Republican budget committee hearing that was held in Dallas, Texas at billionaire Harlan Crow’s property. And it’s part of a plan to create a commission that many believe—Alex does too—that is designed to cut Social Security benefits. Alex, what are the Democrats running to take back the House and Senate in this November’s election proposing to address the Social Security shortfall? And I say that or I ask that question given I’ve heard nary a word about Social Security and all the campaign rhetoric and advertising that are coming at us fast and furious in advance of the election Nov. 3.
ALEX LAWSON: I will say that the Democrats are generally for the most part on the right side of this issue. And anyone who isn’t, the one or two that are on the wrong side, we’re going to have to defeat them along with the Republicans. But the truth is also that the American people are going to be loud and clear. We know the Republicans want to cut Social Security, so we’re going to toss them out of office. That sends the message to the Democrats that the only path forward is to get billionaires and the ultra wealthy to pay the same rate into Social Security to prevent the 25 percent benefit cut in 2032 and to expand benefits. So we are pushing and have every indication that we will get a vote on a bill to expand Social Security in the next Congress. That doesn’t mean that it’s going to become law because President Trump is still going to be president, but by putting it for a vote, it also puts the Republicans on the back foot because they hate having to publicly show that they work for the billionaires and not the American people.
Why are the Democrats not making this a central issue? We are seeing it at play in many elections, but also it’s because people right now are crushed by high costs. And so I do think Democrats are for the most part focused on affordability and that’s right, that’s where the American people are. But they are wrong in thinking that Social Security is not part of the affordability agenda and we’re going to just have to raise our voices a little bit louder. And as that date 2032 comes into more and more focus, it will become clearer and clearer to the American people that this is a top priority, that this is a Number One on people’s “must-be” addressed list by all politicians. And so we just have to systematically and methodically keep pushing for Democrats to understand there’s only one path forward: defeating Republicans in their attempts to cut Social Security; defeating closed door commissions and anything that removes accountability from the politicians for pushing these deeply unpopular ideas like cutting Social Security.
And that’s what we’re doing. I will just say, I’ve been doing this for a long time. Sixteen years ago, we defeated the first closed door commission, the Simpson-Bowles Commission, the 0BS Commission to cut Social Security, and we’ll do it again. But they’ve learned and they made this commission more dangerous to Social Security than that original “BS commission.” But we’ve also learned, we’ve learned that what we need to do is just get as loud as possible around Social Security and the American people do the rest. And then politicians who generally are cowards by nature—they’re not leaders, they follow the people. The people are where bravery comes from. And so when the people are loud and clear, then the politicians follow. And that’s our organizing focus.
SCOTT HARRIS: Well, although as we’ve been talking about, there’s not a lot of discussion about Social Security in this election campaign, as you said, because there are bigger priorities for many people with affordability, the gas, the inflation generally and groceries and everything else. I would imagine that 2028, the presidential and congressional election that year will by necessity have to focus on Social Security and fixing it as 2032 is looming quite close to that election, right?
ALEX LAWSON: Exactly. It’s in the next presidential administration. So the next president of the United States is going to have to decide, is it a 25 percent benefit cut for the American people or are we going to finally make billionaires and the ultra wealthy pay the same rate into Social Security that all the rest of us do? And when faced with that simple choice, it’s clear to me that the American people and therefore, the politicians are going to follow and say, “You know what, billionaires? There’s less than a thousand of you. We’re going to have you pay the same rate on all of your income. We’re going to prevent this benefit cut. We’re going to expand benefits. Everyone’s going to be happy. And don’t worry, billionaires, even after you pay your fair share, you’ll still be rich.” So no one has to worry about the billionaires. The only path that leads to a disaster for the billionaires included is the one where they just keep taking and taking and taking until the economy can’t take it anymore and crumbles.
That’s exactly what happened with the Great Depression. And if we allow Wall Street to stay at the helm as they are right now and the tech broligarchs, then that’s where we’re headed. So it really is a choice between a world that works for working people or billionaire barbarism. And as long as we can lay out the choices clearly, I’m confident that we’re going to build that future for working people together.
SCOTT HARRIS: Alex, tell us about what I’ve heard is “bipartisan legislation” to create this congressional commission to propose fixes to the Social Security system. Why is this dangerous and who’s supporting this on the Democratic side? And if the Democrats do take control of the House and/or Senate or both bodies of government, what can they do to derail this plan and create something more constructive and positive?
ALEX LAWSON: The way to think about it is just that the politicians don’t want the American people to know that they’re trying to cut Social Security, the billionaires and their bought-and-paid-for politicians. So they try to put levels of interference between the people and what’s going on. And their favorite one is a closed door commission where it’s in secret, it’s given powers above the Congress, so it can pass Social Security legislation without going through the process that protects Social Security from cuts. And it’s given fast track, which means it does not go through committees, it just goes right to the floor, and then an up or down vote, meaning no amendments. This is a dagger aimed squarely at the heart of Social Security. And so it is true, it’s bipartisan. You got a handful of Democrats who, for donor dollars are saying they support it, but generally these are not people driving the agenda because the Democratic party through years and years of grassroots organizing does reflect where the American people are.
And the vast majority, the center of the Democratic party is aligned with the push to expand benefits by getting billionaires to pay on all of their income, pay into Social Security on all of their income. So if the Democrats take control of the House and the Senate—and/or the Senate—we’re going to see the Democratic agenda will include moving forward and building a legislative history for expanding Social Security. And that is in advance of 2028, which is when it is really game time on Social Security. That’s when we’re going to see every single person running for president, running for the nomination, is going to be put to the question, which path? Is it billionaire barbarism or is it a world for working people? And Social Security is going to be a key, key indication of where these politicians see the future.
SCOTT HARRIS: Alex, I’m certainly guessing, as we’ve talked about for years now, that “scrapping the cap,” as you’ve been describing it, removing the cap from the wealthiest people in the country so they pay their fair share as everyone else has to into the Social Security system, that’s far more preferable to a vast majority of people than the alternatives, which is raising the retirement age or adjusting monthly benefit formulas like something called “chained CPI”, which was a big topic of discussion. We talked about it years ago when Obama was president. So there are alternatives there and they’re on the table and there’s no doubt that people, if they’re concerned about Social Security now or in the future, they’re going to go with “scrap the cap.”
ALEX LAWSON: Every time. It’s a 90-10 issue, Scott. Every time. We have polling going back forever. We’ve polled it every which way. Republicans say, no, just make the billionaires pay on all of their incomes. Independents, Democrats. I’ve got polling that shows self-identified libertarians, a majority of self-identified libertarians support having billionaires pay on all of their income just like the rest of us do, over cutting benefits from hardworking Americans who’ve paid into their system their entire working lives, who’ve played by the rules. So there’s absolute bipartisan consensus around the country, everywhere outside of Washington, D.C. and Wall Street. So that’s why the way they go about this is so sneaky because they know they can’t do it in sunlight because in sunlight, people see what they’re doing and they say no. So they try to do it behind closed doors. They pull field hearings, they throw them in Dallas in a billionaire’s bunker.
All of these are attempts to keep it out of the sunlight, which is why our goal has to be to make them do it in sunlight. If you’ve got an idea for Social Security, have at it. Tell us what it is, Republicans. And once the people learn that all of their ideas, all of their different policy words for, you said “chained CPI,” there’s a bunch of it all means cuts, raising the retirement age cuts. All of these are cuts to benefits. And I think the American people, what I’ve found in my 16 years of doing this is people are convinced that it is a really complicated issue like, “Oh, well maybe we’ll have to take some benefit cuts because it seems like it’s a big problem.” And it’s not hard at all. There’s a cap. Not everyone pays in. The more money you make, the less you pay as a percentage into Social Security.
Just change that to the same. I’m not even saying that billionaires have to pay more. I’m just saying the same rate. And as soon as people learn, that’s how simple it is. It’s a 90-10 issue everywhere in this country and it’s completely bipartisan, which is why the corporate media owned by the billionaires and the billionaire-owned politicians do not want to do this in the sunshine, in the view of the American people, which is why we must continually demand that they do it with full accountability in the sunshine.
And it’s why the lame ducks this last session of Congress, all the members who have lost and they’re going to lose their jobs, this is when we’re at extreme danger of a commission actually passing because that is another time when there’s a huge lack of accountability because these politicians, they’re not going to face their voters again. They’ve already lost. So we need to do everything we can to raise up Social Security champions and defeat Social Security opponents in the election, but we need to be ready in the lame duck to fight tooth and nail to block any attempt to create a commission or anything else that’s aimed at the heart of Social Security.
SCOTT HARRIS: Alex, we’re almost out of time, but I know as hard as you work on this issue, you’re probably already thinking about an effective public education campaign that’s going to be needed to mobilize public opinion and voters ahead of the 2028 congressional and presidential election to ensure that there are good alternatives for Social Security that come into play as we’ve been talking about as soon as a new president is sworn in.
Lastly, Alex, leave our listeners with the website for Social Security Works where they can see your recent video from the Harlan Country Club, Harlan Crow Country Club where you spent a little time and generally the resources they can find at Social Security Works.
ALEX LAWSON: Yeah, you can go to socialsecurityworks.org. We’re on all the social media, Social Security Works, and you can see my video. Jodey Arrington and his billionaire buddy, they threw me out, had me escorted out by the police for just saying that this hearing is a farce. It’s to create a closed-door commission to cut Social Security. And we have a ton of resources, research, everything you need to know so that you can be confident that this is the path forward. It’s not hard. We just have to get billionaires to pay the same rate in and Social Security will be around for another 91 years doing its amazing work, an engine against inequality. And we’d invite you to join with us in this fight. You can find us at socialsecurityworks.org or on all the social media at Social Security Works.
SCOTT HARRIS: Got it. Alex, as always, thanks for making time for us and appreciate all the important work you do, and I know our listeners do too. Look forward to our next discussion. Appreciate it.
ALEX LAWSON: Thanks so much.
SCOTT HARRIS: Thanks, Alex. Goodnight. That’s Alex Lawson, executive director of the group Social Security Works.
