Ralph Nader on Gaza War: ‘A Level of Savagery to Haunt the State of Israel for a Long, Long Time’

Interview with Ralph Nader, America’s leading public interest lawyer and four-time independent presidential candidate, conducted by Scott Harris

It’s been more than six weeks since the Hamas Oct. 7 terrorist attack that killed 1,200 Israeli men, women and children, and 240 civilians who were taken to Gaza as hostages. Since then, Israel’s retaliatory bombing and ground assault in Gaza has killed more than 13,000 Palestinians, including more than 5,500 children and 30,000 injured, according to the Gaza Health Ministry. Hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, refugee camps and ambulances have all been attacked by Israel.

At the same time, violence is exploding in the occupied West Bank where over 200 Palestinians have been killed, 1,800 have been arrested by the IDF and extremist Israeli settlers and soldiers have driven almost 1,000 Palestinian residents out of their homes in 16 communities.

As this Between The Lines episode was being recorded, after weeks of negotiations, Israeli officials and representatives of Hamas agreed on a deal to free at least 50 of the 240 hostages taken in the Oct. 7 attacks in exchange for Palestinian women and children held in Israeli prisons — toward a four-day truce in Gaza. Between The Lines’ Scott Harris spoke with Ralph Nader, America’s leading public interest lawyer, four-time independent presidential candidate and author. Here Nader, a longtime critic of U.S. policy toward Israel and Palestine, talks about the shocking loss of Palestinian lives resulting from Israel’s relentless bombing of civilian targets in Gaza. He is also the son of Lebanese immigrants to the U.S. His newest book is titled, “The Rebellious CEO.”

RALPH NADER: After many wars on Palestinians and regular destruction of life in the West Bank and Gaza, smashing houses over the decades, kidnapping innocents to put them in Israeli jails so they can be used to extract information from their extended families and control their extended families in West Bank and Gaza, what we’re seeing here is a textbook definition of genocide.

It’s not only the intent that was expressed by ministers in the Netanyahu coalition, which in effect on Oct. 8 stated, “No water, no food, no fuel, no electricity, no medicine, nothing.” That is genocidal intent. And then, it was followed up by a massive armed attack and invasion in response to the Oct. 7th assault by Hamas, which an elderly Holocaust survivor in Israel told The New York Times, “It should never have happened.” It’s a complete failure of military intelligence by the Israelis that allowed this to happen.

Anyway, the disproportionate attack is producing misery not seen for many, many decades in plain sight. Thirteen thousand is a minimal figure. There are at least 20,000 to 30,000 dead so far. I mean, you can’t deprive people of healthcare, critical transportation, blowing up ambulances, blowing up schools sheltering fleeing people, blowing up apartment buildings, mosques, churches clearly marked UN installations, even the Palestinian Red Cross facilities.

Anything in Gaza, of which Israel has longtime computer models, by the way, is a target. And is justified by saying, “Well, there are Hamas fighters here and there, everywhere.” Well, that is just an excuse. Because first of all, as a high government official experienced in the Middle East told Sy Hersh, “The Israeli invasion is a cakewalk.” It’s hardly getting any resistance because it’s up against one of the most modern superpower militaries in the world by land, sea, and air, what has Hamas got? Limited supplies of rifles, grenade launchers and a few anti-tech missiles.

So what was going on is Israel is trying to justify what they’re doing by saying, “We got to destroy everything because Hamas uses them as human shields.” Well, first of all, even if they were using them as human shield, you don’t blow up a hospital. You don’t blow up a school. That’s a clear violation of the ban on disproportionality under international law.

And now there’s a spread of diseases, infants who don’t have their parents, nothing to take care of them, the elderly, the infirm, the people with cancer, no insulin for diabetics, and they’re trying to say 13,000. Imagine if 20,000 bombs were dropped on Philadelphia, all kinds of civilian areas. Fires couldn’t be put out because they blow up fire prevention facilities and you think there’d only be 13,000 fatalities in Philadelphia? The Palestinians cannot even have their dead counted. They can’t bury their dead. They’re piled up, rotting under the sun and eaten by stray dogs under the gaze of Israeli soldiers.

They can’t escape because it’s an open air prison surrounded by Israel under a 16-year-long blockade, which is illegal under international law. They can’t even surrender because Israel won’t even let them surrender because they don’t want to take responsibility under international law for the POWs.

So they’re trapped, and they’re fleeing under orders of the Israeli army and then being bombed while they’re fleeing. And they go down south for a refuge, and they’re being bombed down there.

So what’s all this about? It’s clearly the extremist right-wing Netanyahu coalition longstanding policy of a Greater Israel. Eretz Israel, they call it in the Likud Party, which means to take over the entire original Palestine, which means the West Bank and Gaza.

And how do you do this? By pushing people further out into the desert, maybe try to push them into Jordan, into Egypt, which of course is going to resist that, and create a vast destitute refugee camp of 2.3 million people, three-quarters of whom are children and women. So this is a level of savagery that’s going to haunt the state of Israel for a long, long time.

For more information, visit Ralph Nader’s website at Nader.org.

Listen to Scott Harris’ in-depth interview with Ralph Nader (17:08) and see more articles and opinion pieces in the Related Links section of this page.

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