Trump’s Lawless Venezuela Offensive Was Never About Drugs, But All About Oil

Interview with Andreína Chávez, reporter based in Caracas; Steve Ellner, associate managing editor of Latin American Perspectives, conducted by Scott Harris

no blood for oil

In the early morning hours of Jan. 3, President Donald Trump illegally ordered the U.S. military to bomb army bases near Venezuela’s capital Caracas and kidnapped the nation’s President Nicolás Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores, who were then flown to the U.S to face criminal charges of narcoterrorism conspiracy and weapons offenses. In a New York City courtroom, Maduro and his wife pled not guilty to the charges. Maduro declared that he was a “kidnapped” president and a prisoner of war.

At a press conference later held to discuss his order to abduct President Maduro, Trump repeated the false claim that Venezuela had stolen America’s oil, justifying in his mind his stated intention to turn over the world’s largest proven crude oil reserves to U.S. oil companies. Addressing questions about Venezuelan opposition leader Nobel Prize laureate María Corina Machado, Trump said, “She doesn’t have the support within or the respect within the country.” Appearing drunk with power after his military success, Trump then threatened unspecified future military action against Colombia, Cuba, Greenland, Iran and Mexico.

Between The Lines’ Scott Harris spoke with Andreína Chávez, a reporter based in Caracas, and Steve Ellner, an editor with Latin American Perspectives, who discuss the current uncertain political situation in Venezuela and the true history of U.S. oil companies investments in the country that were partially compensated after the government nationalized the fossil fuel industry in 1976.  We hear first from Andreína on the deaths resulting from the U.S. attack.

ANDREÍNA CHÁVEZ: So we have reports that at least 80 people were killed in these attacks. We have confirmation from the Cuban government and the Venezuelan government that 32 Cuban nationals were killed, defending President Maduro and defending Venezuela against the U.S. attacks. We had the name of at least one of the civilians who died because of the U.S. bombing. An 80-year-old woman, her name is Rosa Gonzalez. She died during the U.S. bombings in Catia La Mar in La Guaira state. We also know that at least another person in El Hatillo, Miranda state also died because of the U.S. bombings. And the information right now is still ongoing. We’re still trying to understand exactly the damage that the U.S. bombs actually affected. The Venezuelan population has suffered because of this attack. It is completely untrue, but the China administration is saying that everything was a surgical operation, that everything was successful, that nobody was harmed. But innocent people were hurt and that is a fact.

SCOTT HARRIS: Andreína, I did want to ask you about what the opposition leaders are saying in Venezuela in response to the U.S. attack and abduction of President Maduro. Given the fact that Donald Trump had some unexpected words to say about opposition leader Mariá Corina Machado, saying she wasn’t qualified or respected enough to lead Venezuela, that rubbed a lot of Venezuelan exiles here in the United States the wrong way. I’m certain that the opposition is also divided about that comment from Trump. What can you tell us about the opposition groups and what they’re saying or not saying in this current moment of crisis?
ANDREÍNA CHÁVEZ: You have to understand that once Trump said that Mariá Karina Machado did not have the support of the Venezuelan people, that she was not qualified to be the leader, that was a hard blow for her from the entire radical opposition in Venezuela. So the opposition has been very quiet in that sense. Other sectors of the Venezuela position who are not with Mariá Corina Machado, they are actually against Mariá Corina Machado. They are more centrist and they reject U.S. intervention. They understand the need to defend Venezuelan sovereignty and they are not supporting the U.S. attack against Venezuela. But like I said, the radical opposition of Venezuela, the one that has been calling for a youth invasion or intervention in Venezuela, they were hit really hard when Trump said that she was not qualified. Mariá Corina Machado has never had popular support inside Venezuela.

SCOTT HARRIS: Thank you, Andreína. Steve, we only have a few minutes left and I wanted to ask you this final question. Assess for us the state of the oil industry inside Venezuela and Trump’s declaration that the U.S. owns Venezuela’s oil and charges at the U.S. oil companies are owed billions of dollars. And there’s been news reports that Trump has told the U.S. oil companies to get back into Venezuela and start pumping oil again, although that’s a project that might take many years.

STEVE ELLNER: Well, you know, Scott, it demonstrates complete ignorance about Venezuelan legislation. Venezuelan legislation like the rest of much of Latin America, but in the case of Venezuela going back to Simon Bolivar in the struggle for independence, the soil and the subsoil belongs to the nation. That’s a fundamental principle in Venezuela law and the oil companies knew that. I mean, they invested in Venezuela knowing full well that they were not owning the land. Now, Trump is saying that Venezuela has to give back the land and the oil, but the fact of the matter is that the land never belonged to them. Secondly, he states that the oil was robbed, was taken from the oil company. But the fact of the matter is that at no point did the government reject the idea of compensation. The oil was nationalized in 1976 and the oil companies were compensated. Chavez renationalized the oil industry and the same thing happened.
Now that happened—that was in 2007. Some changes were made, one of which was that the employees were transferred to the payroll of the state oil company. Chevron accepted that. They stayed. Exxon and ConocoPhillips left, but they weren’t forced out of Venezuela. This is stated time and time again. Those two oil companies left Venezuela of their own accord. They were not expelled from Venezuela. More recently, Maduro was in negotiations with Conoco Phillips and there was a possibility that they would reinvest in Venezuela again. But that is simply not true that the oil was taken from the United States.

And this narrative that the United States built the oil industry … I mean, these were Venezuelans who were performing that. Venezuelans who listened to that narrative, that listened to Trump’s talk just goes against the sense of pride and nationalism because the oil industry was all about Venezuelans. It was the result of the effort of Venezuelans. And the idea that it was the United States that built the industry is deceptive.

Listen to Scott Harris’ in-depth interview with Andreína Chávez and Steve Ellner (20:13) and see more articles and opinion pieces in the related links section of this page. See more articles and opinion pieces in the related links section of this page. For periodic updates on the Trump authoritarian playbook, subscribe here to our Between The Lines Radio Newsmagazine Substack newsletter to get updates to our “Hey AmeriKKKa, It’s Not Normal” compilation.

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